Story/ERICA HAWKINS
Photos/KRIS FUENTES CORTES
âItâs not about the beat, itâs about the lyrics, end of story. Itâs all about lyrics and telling your story. Tell your story, be honest, be true. Donât give me another song that just says exactly what you think youâre supposed to say. Thereâs no time for it, thereâs no point. I already have all that music.â
Thatâs Portugal. The Manâs lead singer John Gourleyâs take on how sharing authentic experience, not just the story youâre supposed to tell, leads to really great songwriting. And he would know. The band is currently #1 on Top 40 Radio, platinum certified, a Billboard mainstay. This is probably what thwarted my attempt to catch their set at Austin City Limits. They played to the largest crowd of devotees I witnessed the entire weekend, some of which settled for obstructed views just for the chance to hear the bandâs rock/pop/folk/hip-hop/psychedelic-tinged sound.Â
I met with Gourley at Austin City Limits to discuss the current state of rock and roll (spoiler: Cage the Elephant is doing it right, The Killers were once, but were thrown off their game), the folk tradition of passing down music from town to town and generation to generation (but also paying your dues and giving credit– looking at you this time, Future), and how throwing away the trappings of rock and roll stardom led to the ingenuous crafting of their latest album Woodstock and crossover hit, âFeel It Still.â
You had a small break between this week and last weekâs show, how did that feel?
If felt really good, weâve been nonstop for the past 31 days or something like that. I do have to point out that our management and agent, who are standing right next to me right now, tried to tell me that we had a day off on the tour, but it was a travel day. We were flying from Europe back to Chicago and then driving to the next show.
Just a casual day on a plane from Europe.
Yeah, that was a day off? No time to deal with jet lag. But I mean, thatâs kind of what itâs about. You just have to be able to roll with that stuff.
Are you excited about tonightâs set? The word on the street is that it was scorching hot last week.
No, we were cool. We were cool last weekend.
Thatâs a positive way to look at it, everybody has been saying it was so hot.
Other bands man, try too hard.
Trying too hard to be cool. So this tour and album campaign…compared to your previous, whatâs the biggest marked difference in how people are reacting to the music?
Well, I mean I think one thing thatâs pretty obvious, we have a song like âFeel It Stillâ, which has done crazy well. You canât really expect that. You canât predict it. It definitely feels good that that song has come across the way that it has. I think the biggest thing that Iâve seen is just the difference between  interviews today at radio. Everything is really exciting and really fun. Like we did Radio Disney, and Ryan Seacrestâs radio show, and I gotta be honest, I love that stuff. I watch some cringy interviews, artists that I really love, that you can tell they head into it with kind of an elitist attitude, like âoh this doesnât matter.â Those people are so good at what they do and theyâre so funny and so off the cuff and it just felt really good being a band and walking into that situation, as dumb as we are. Weâre just not the type of people that come up with talking points and make sure you hit this, you donât really have to do that with our band. So itâs been a lot of fun.
I appreciate that because I feel like when people get into the situation that youâre in with a hit like âFeel It Stillâ they can get jaded when they have to keep talking about it.
Yeah, whatâs the deal? Weâve come up listening to bands, bands that we love and I mean Iâll name them, like Nada Surf has made a crazy good come back obviously, but they had that song âPopularâ and I remember that being something they didnât want to play. Harvey Danger with âFlagpole Sitta,â didnât want to play âFlagpole Sittaâ and tried to avoid having this smash hit, by naming it âFlagpole Sittaâ instead of âIâm Paranoidâ or whatever he couldâve named it. Itâs that idea that if you can craft a song like that, craft a song that connects with people, on so many different levels, and across the spectrum of what the mainstream is, and mainstream isnât just pop music. I mean itâs just this very broad spectrum where it leads to the middle, and thatâs pop culture, to become part of that is such a huge thing and I think to just completely throw off this idea that youâre good at songwriting? Like, hell yeah. Â Â Â
Do you feel like itâs more important to lean into that, or to push against that success to keep things fresh, new, and interesting?
It depends on the artist I guess. Like MGMT, they put out an amazing record eight years ago, or whatever it was, it was so long ago now. We have mutual friends and everybodyâs like âoh well they werenât trying to write this massive thing, it just happened,â and thatâs true, I donât think you can really try to do that. But when youâre given an opportunity like that I just feel like itâs really disrespectful to your fans to be like âoh that was a joke, that thing that you all loved, that was a joke.â
Right, that song that made you cry? We were just kidding.
Your elitist fans, your fans that are like âoh weâre a weird art thing.â I always want to be an artist, but you know what youâre a fucking great artist, youâre a fucking great artist that wrote some really great songs, and not trying to come in and meet that pressure? Yeah you get a lot of pressure. This is the problem with music right now. You see something like that, you see the success, Jet is another example of crazy success, you put out a sophomore record with no hits as MGMT and Jet did, it doesnât mean theyâre bad at songwriting. You know like if you pull it back away from it, MGMT obviously is a different thing from Jet, theyâre still a band, still doing really great things, really interesting things, a really really great group, but the one thing that I miss, the one thing I want from them, is to change it. To change the mainstream. Thatâs the whole point.
How do people going about doing that, though? How do you acknowledge that you need to do that, and how do people even know thatâs something they should be doing?
Well, you just be yourself. Youâre the same person who wrote that song. You wrote those songs, and you have to understand all those people connecting with your music. Like, I have asshole friends that try to tell me like, âIâm not into the new stuff, Iâm not really into thatâ and I hear that every now and then and Iâm like, thatâs cool man, thatâs cool. Iâm doing what I love and Iâm going to keep doing that, and if thereâs even a chance of being able to write another song like âFeel it Stillâ of course Iâm gonna do it.
Where did âFeel It Stillâ come from? Did that just happen organically? Was there any inkling when you were writing it that people were going to vibe with it?
Yeah, definitely when I was writing it, but it wasnât intentional, and thatâs the whole point of what Iâm saying. What Iâm saying about Jet and all that, just because they put out a sophomore record or a record that people didnât connect with, doesnât mean they canât write songs, those are great songwriters.
Theyâre still the people that wrote those songs.
That is so huge. I think what weâre missing right now is what The Beatles and The [Rolling] Stones, and Pink Floyd, people like that did. Like all of our heroes they would just write albums, they would just write records and just put them out and if thereâs a hit on it, cool. If not, cool. You know, weâre gonna choose this song itâs my favorite song on the record.
But do you think thatâs kind of the situation we put ourselves in with modern technology where there is just like this instant feedback loop all the time so people donât give certain artists and albums a chance?
Oh yeah. I saw the reviews of our album when it came out.
You read those? Iâd be so scared to do that.
Yeah, I like to check it out. Iâm for it. Weâre pretty indifferent to criticisms and all that stuff and sometimes there is a good point made, and thatâs why I read it. Sometimes they do make a good point. But a lot of the stuff I saw, in the beginning, was a lot of, it was a basic, âsounds like these guys are swinging for the fences and falling shortâ and I just gotta say, âFeel it Stillâ definitely thatâs a home run. Thatâs a Babe Ruth.
I know âSo Youngâ is a nod to Oasis, and weâve talked about a few other contemporary artists, do you see any other bands that are doing it the right way? Still pushing themselves, and just doing what they enjoy and having it resonate with people?
I think Cage The Elephant, honestly, having toured with them and having hung out with them. I remember three years ago, I believe it was three years ago we all went to dinner, it was before we really knew each other. I run into them all the time, we run into each other in elevators at hotels, parties. I remember we got dinner with Cage after one of the festivals we played and I was sitting next to Matt [Schultz] and weâre talking about music and he says, âyou know I just want to write the biggest songs I can, I want to do something great for rock and rollâ and I said, yeah you know what, me too. Same page. And I like having a band in rock and roll that I feel competitive with and theyâre going to push me to write better songs and I hope we push them to write better songs, but outside of that itâs just kind of a tough thing to look at. No, I donât think The Killers are writing their best music, but itâs still good, you know?
So you think they had moments when they were writing their best music?
The biggest. Those bands all wrote some of the biggest songs ever, and this is something I always try to stand back and look and go, what is that thing? What is that thing? What is the thing that throws you off your game?
Yeah, I see how thatâs kind of part of your job to analyze that.
Honestly I saw it with us working on this album, and it was a really simple hit. It was so subtle I didnât even notice it until two years deep into it. We were working with Mike D and Danger Mouse [Brian Burton], two of the greatest musicians and artists and producers of our time, and the thing that we got was two producers you canât pay for. You canât buy them. You canât say âhey weâre Elektra Records weâve got $2 million,â Mike will say âdo I like itâ Brian will say âdo I like it? Â No, ok, Iâm not going to to do it.â So I think the thing that happened was we were recording at Shangri La, Rick Rubinâs studio in Malibu on the beach drinking smoothies every morning.
Living your best life.
We were writing some of the best creative music weâve ever made, it was all so rad and so cool but it was completely open-ended because we had producers you canât buy, so the note from everybody was just work. When youâre finished youâre finished. You get this rope, the second you have a hit you get this rope letâs take it as far as you want and the thing that I saw happening was where is the hunger? Whereâs my reason for writing music? Iâm living literally exactly the dream life of rock and roll, in Malibu on the beach, like how do you make a record? It took throwing out all of that stuff, which that is what it is. Like thereâs some really cool stuff, writing with Mike D, that dude will push you in the craziest ways. Heâd be like, âsing about what you ate for breakfast today,â and Iâm thinking about it going, you canât actually do that, but you think about Beastie Boys and you go, âIâll stir fry you in my wokâ theyâre just rapping about food, like thatâs their night out. I was watching Star Trek last night so Iâll throw in some references. Itâs a weird thing. Writing music is just kind of a crazy weird thing and having a reason to do it, I think thatâs the hardest part. I think thatâs probably the biggest struggle with artists like that, theyâve written some of the best music of all time, like these are some of the all-time records and I donât envy the pressure that goes along with it, but I also wonder how itâs being taken on.
The world has been crazy lately. What role do you think music should play in times like these?
Well the thing that we musicians should bring to music, is just experience. I gotta say, I grew up, this is the great thing about travel and just humans in general, you grow and you learn, like no kid is born knowing his times tables, thatâs just not how we are. You just gotta learn some of that stuff, some of it may be intuitive. I grew up in a really conservative place, like Alaska is where people go to get away from everything. The second I started traveling, and experiencing other cultures and meeting people, just worldwide with different political views, different religions, you just start to recognize things that you donât get when you grow up in a small town. Â You donât get to eat at the Ethiopian restaurant, sushi is like, you have no clue what it is. Like âraw fish, youâre eating raw fish? Thatâs ridiculous.â I think thatâs what it comes down to.
Musicians should be getting out and should be seeing things thatâs the whole point of us traveling, thatâs where this music started, thatâs where folk music started it was traveling and taking your story from one city to the next one town to the next, and just sharing stories and thatâs all it is. Itâs not about âhey, baby is a word that works really well in pop music, letâs throw that in there.â Throw it in if it works, if it doesnât work itâs got no place. You gotta sing about your experiences.
Rock music seems so shook by whatâs happening in hip-hop, thatâs true storytelling. Hip-hop to me is exactly what folk music is, that is storytelling, from the most basic level. Thatâs Mike D, what you had for breakfast, thatâs it. What did I deal with today, what did I deal with on the subway, itâs so built for that. And I see so many rock bands taking what they think to be like the psychedelic photo or the glam rock thing, and trying to write and compete with hip-hop and thatâs not the point of what weâre all doing. Just trade places, hair metal was a huge thing for a while. I didnât get it, I never understood it, I donât get disco, itâs not my thing, but itâs just recognizing what those artists do. Like every hip-hop artists I know just to say this, they listen to rock and roll. They listen to Metallica, they listen to the music that you make. So quit trying to throw a trap beat on some fucking bullshit, and think that thatâs what it is.
Again taking it back to Woodstock a lot of the response was âitâs called Woodstock but it doesnât sound like Woodstock.â Well all those artists were all experimenting at the time, this is the birth of rock and roll, this is where everything is becoming, soul is becoming something different, R&B is becoming something different. Itâs more than The Beatles, itâs more than just these single artist, like that stuff is really becoming this broad thing, and you saw that at Woodstock, and our album was meant to be what would Woodstock sound like today? Like when you got to ACL when you go to these festivals.
Right, like what would people be speaking about?
Yeah, what would be people be talking about, even things as simple as, âdonât eat the brown acid, brown acid is badâ like whatever it is. Where is our thing? Like weâre missing that, and to be a rock artist today I think itâs a really exciting time, because you should have a level of competitive spirit, like I want to step up and go, I see what youâre doing, let’s go back to where all of this comes from.
Look at things like Wu-Tang [Clan] and Beastie [Boys] and Run-D.M.C. you look at where Hip-Hop comes from and itâs all the same as folk music, itâs all Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger, traveling from town to town, learning a song in Missoula and taking it to Idaho Falls and writing a new verse along the way, telling that story, thatâs RZA sampling all that classic soul and all that R&B everything that hip-hop artist were sampling, that is sharing that music with a new generation and we should be doing the same thing.
We should be looking at it and going, we should be really upset, even rock artists should be upset with people like [Lonzo] Ball talking about Nas doesnât matter and itâs all about Future and 2 Chainz like all that shit, like donât talk shit. Like if you donât know where it comes from you canât be. You cannot exist.
That again is the beauty of hip-hop to me, just recognizing where you come from, and trying to find your own voice in hip-hop is such a sticky business. To do it you have to know the artists that youâre biting, thatâs David Bowie. Kendrick [Lamar] to me is kind of a David Bowie, in a weird way, itâs just something Iâve been thinking about recently. Heâs just kind of got this thing where when I first heard him, I heard a little bit of Lil Wayne but he still had this voice that was his own thing, and that reminds me of Bowieâs early stuff. I can hear when heâs pulling from T.Rex and The Beatles, and you can hear some of the show tunes-ey stuff just within chord changes, heâs doing some really cool things.
Kendrick is doing that, not to talk about Kendrick, cause we got Run The Jewels here and they kill it, as far as their views being spoken and just talking about music history, sampling from the right places. You canât ever worry about production points and songwriting credits, and all that stuff, you can go to musicologist all day, and theyâll tell you what two notes to change to make that Bowie melody yours, and that Beatlesâ thing yours, and itâs unfair, like itâs unfair to the artists we grew up with.
Donât act like Future just came out of nowhere like donât be stupid, like that shit, it comes from somewhere and if Future doesnât know it, he shouldnât be doing it. Thatâs just it at the end of the day. Iâm sure he does know. Iâm sure he knows.
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